Calling All Intelligent Designers – Part II

April 28, 2007 at 6:33 am | Posted in Atheism, Beliefs, creationism, evolution, intelligent design, Religion | 13 Comments

The responses I received on part I where I asked the question, “WHO MADE GOD?”  brings up more questions.
 Sean said

He is infinite. He is outside of time, because He created time.

Brian said

God was not created.
He always is. Let’s analyze the logic behind it.
In order for something to be the absolute creator, it has to be outside of the rules it created.
In order for a board game to be created, someone/thing has to be outside of the rules of the board game in order to make them.
In order for this computer that I’m usint to be created, someone/thing had to be outside of the rules that binds a computer.
In order for the world, time, physics, and everything else to be created, someone/thing had to be outside of those rules to create them.

I almost always hear god referred to as he or him, occasionally she/her, but never it. If god, as the creator, exists outside of the rules that apply to his creations then I assume that god has no gender, so why call god he?

The next question I have is about god making man in his image? Again, if the same rules don’t apply to the creator as the creations, how is this possible? Also if god created man in his image, why are there so many who doubt his existence? Would not the creations of this god have a belief system built in by the creator? I won’t even ask the question why, having been made in his image, do we not all look alike? Then I imagine the answer from those who take the bible literally would tell me this is metaphoric (another of many contradictions). Beyond that, being made in his image, how do you explain the horribly deformed or any physical or mental state that falls outside of what the bible describes?

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  1. Why call God He?
    I dunno.
    It doesn’t matter whether we reffer to God as He, She, It, or what ever.
    It shouldn’t make a differance.

    I don’t follow your ‘made in His image’ question.
    Could you expand more?

    But the belief system built in…
    It kinda is.

    For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
    -Romans 1:20

    But, God loves us, so He did not want to make us robots – then we couldn’t choose not to love Him, so the love wouldn’t be as… genuine (word?). Instead He gave us the choice to choose Him or not – that allows us to truly love Him.

    And no, I do not believe it to be metaphoric.

    Deformed state?
    After Adam and Eve sinned, evil entered into the world and it began to decay.
    Deformities etc resulted from that – man’s choice.

  2. Brian,

    I don’t follow your ‘made in His image’ question.
    Could you expand more?

    I often hear that god made man in his image. I just wanted clarity on how man could be made in the image of a designer that you clearly state is outside of the rules of it’s own design in your response to my question about who made god.

    In order for the world, time, physics, and everything else to be created, someone/thing had to be outside of those rules to create them.

  3. Ah. I see.

    Honestly, I don’t know.
    I think that is one of the things we’ll never be able to truly understand.

    But really, do I have to be able answer every question?
    After all, there are billions of questions that Evolutionists cannot answer.
    *shrugs*

  4. Who says there is any need at all for any sort of creator? There already exists theories which have no room or need for such a creator being, while the evidence for such a being existing is in itself non-existent.

  5. There are theories for a creator.

    And just because there’s a theory doesn’t mean it’s true.
    Could you show me evidance to support your theory?

    No evidance for a creator?
    Where have you been?!?
    There’s plenty of evidance for a creator.
    Look around you! Look at creation, how could it come about by chance? None of you would ever look at a car or a computer and say it came about by chance – but you look at all of existance at think it came about by chance when it’s a zillion times more complex and intricate than a car or computer could ever be!
    That still blows my mind… but that’s just me. *shrugs*

    Another example… The Bible – which I believe to be reliable.


    You should probably do a little research before you go making claims like that Matt.

  6. “There are theories for a creator.”

    No, they’re not theories. They’re hypothesis, there’s a huge amount of difference between the two.

    “Could you show me evidance to support your theory?”

    There is so much evidence to support evolution and big theory that it simply isn’t funny. And I’m not the one claiming there is a god, therefore the burden of proof is not on me – it’s on the one making the claim.

    “No evidance for a creator? Where have you been?!?
    There’s plenty of evidance for a creator.”

    Really? Where? I certainly don’t see any.

    “Look around you! Look at creation, how could it come about by chance?”

    Which bits specifically? The universe? Life? Narrow your focus a bit. The Universe, as per evidence, was created in the Big Bang whereas life started with abiogenesis and then formed into what we have today through the process of evolution.

    “None of you would ever look at a car or a computer and say it came about by chance”

    Ah, ‘The Watchmaker’ argument which really is one large logical fallacy. It is also one which has been disproven many times already so I won’t waste my time going over it here. Instead, a link to someone who has already done it for me:
    http://www.skepticwiki.org/index.php/Argument_from_Design

    “That still blows my mind… but that’s just me. ”

    Indeed, it may be you. But that does not constitute evidence.

    “Another example… The Bible – which I believe to be reliable.”

    The Judeo-Christian Bible is far from a reliable text. It contains many errors, contradictions and demonstratively false statements.
    Again, this work has already been done by other people so listing these various mistakes would be an exercise in futility on my part. Try the following:
    http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_and_history
    http://www.americanhumanist.org/humanism/thebible.html
    http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Main_Page

    If you have any questions regarding how the Universe and Life as we know it began, then I recommend the following websites which are generally quite well written, researched and reviewed:
    http://www.skepticwiki.org/index.php/The_Beginning_of_Time
    http://www.talkorigins.org/
    http://www.creationtheory.org/

    “You should probably do a little research before you go making claims like that Matt.”

    As for research, I do my fair share and I’m reasonably well read on the subject. Cheers.

  7. You humans are so funny!
    But Catfusius said: “Leave the faith of your servants alone – it is all they have”.
    Anastasia

  8. “Look around you! Look at creation, how could it come about by chance?”
    Which bits specifically? The universe? Life? Narrow your focus a bit. The Universe, as per evidence, was created in the Big Bang whereas life started with abiogenesis and then formed into what we have today through the process of evolution.

    I’m talking about everything. Why should I narrow it down?

    Ah… I’ve seen many of those supposed ‘contradictions’ – and they’re pretty bogus. Just read the Bible and/or use common sense.

    Theory – Hypothosis. Terms. Big deal.
    Evolution is a hypothosis as well.

    Watchmaker? A large fallacy…
    I don’t follow that – I’m sorry.

    I went to creation theory – and they start talking aobut Lucy – which has been disproved. :-/


    I do not see the point of us arguing.
    I am no expert on Creation vs. Evolution – but I do know enough to believe that Evolution is not true (and that it cannot be ‘proven’ – and nor can Creationism).
    All we’ve been doing is haggling. You don’t like my evidances – and I don’t like yours.
    You don’t believe what I say, and I don’t believe what you say.
    Thus, I am going to be abstaining from future Creation and Evolution debates.
    There’s no point – so I shall spend my time elsewhere.

  9. […] What Does God Look Like? May 23, 2007 at 8:39 am | In Beliefs, Atheism, god, Religion | I once again find myself thinking about all that “in his image” stuff.  What I’m wondering now is sort of the flip side of some questions I had when I wrote  Calling All Intelligent Designers – Part II. […]

  10. Brian Purkiss is one of the biggest morons around. The “evidance” (like dances with wolves) is in his utterly irrelevent writing. Why those of you who have the ability to form complete ideas (Honjii and Matt) even bother to respond to this dipshit is beyond me!!!
    Spend your time writing to your representatives and to the mass media and calling those morons out on their shit.

  11. Congratulations thinkingperson. You have used one of the biggest Ad Hominem’s (logical fallacy) I’ve ever seen.

  12. Brian:

    Theory – Hypothosis. Terms. Big deal.

    Evolution is a hypothosis as well.

    You’re incorrect. There is a big difference between theory and hypothesis. If you want to play the game and hunt for scientific evidence, you better damned well follow the rules (i.e. understand and use the sceintific method). Even after you defined the terms, you still obviously don’t understand them, or you would realize that evolution is theory. I wonder if your confused about “terms” such as “fact” and “law” as well.

    I bet you’d say “God exists. That is a fact.” You’d need to say nothing other than that to simply prove me correct about your misunderstanding of the basic scientific terms taught in elementary school.

  13. I bet you’d say “God exists. That is a fact.” You’d need to say nothing other than that to simply prove me correct about your misunderstanding of the basic scientific terms taught in elementary school.

    How so?


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